Back at Fox & Friends, co-host Jillian Mele brought up Kim’s human rights abuses.

“President Trump recently made a comment about having a certain type of good chemistry with Kim Jong Un...But when you’re talking about someone who has been responsible for so many human rights abuses, does he run a risk with that kind of language of, A, coming off to Kim Jong Un like he’s pandering to him to an extent, or B, upsetting the American public that elected a president that they want to stand firm and be tough on those human rights violations...?” Mele asked.

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Carlson acknowledged that “there’s no defending the North Korean regime,” which he called “the last really Stalinist regime in the world.” But then he argued that being a leader means you have to kill people.

“On the other hand,” Carlson continued, “you know, you got to be honest about what it means to lead a country—it means killing people. Not on the scale that the North Koreans do, but a lot of countries commit atrocities, including a number that we’re closely allied with.”

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He added that “it’s not necessarily a choice between, you know, the evil people and the great people, it’s a choice most of the time between the bad people and the worse people.”

“It’s just kind of the nature of life, and certainly the nature of power,” he said.

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That was a similar argument that Trump put forth about Russian President Vladimir Putin in 2017 during an interview with Bill O’Reilly, formerly of Fox News. O’Reilly noted that “Putin is a killer,” to which Trump responded, “There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers.” He added: “Well, you think our country is so innocent?”

Trump made the same argument on MSNBC’s Morning Joe as a presidential candidate in 2015. Co-host Joe Scarborough noted that Putin “kills journalists, political opponents, and invades countries,” to which Trump replied, “He’s running his country, and at least he’s a leader, unlike what we have in this country,” referring to President Barack Obama.

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Pressed again about the killing of journalists, Trump responded at the time, “Well, I think our country does plenty of killing also, Joe.”

While in South Korea, Carlson interviewed Trump for Fox News, which is expected to air on Monday night.

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